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The Astroturf “Muslim Reform Movement”

By Jonas Spooner & Jono Stubbins

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

-Upton Sinclair

In this present climate of engineered anti-Muslim hysteria and it’s resulting anti-Muslim prejudice and discrimination there exists one career path that has exploded with opportunity for Muslims; that of the “Muslim Reformer”.  However, the ‘Muslim Reform’ kingmakers are not equal-opportunity anointers. Muslim candidates will be heavily-vetted but well rewarded. They must be prepared to sanction the discrimination and the persecution of their Muslim brethren “as a Muslim”. They must be prepared to turn a blind-eye and a silent tongue to the excesses of the Israeli regime. They must be prepared to serve as the exotically named and non-white tools of a manufactured echo-chamber – a propaganda machine actively working against the interests of Muslims.

To understand the value of the ‘Muslim Reformer’ it’s helpful to first understand Gray Propaganda. The Encyclopedia of American Foreign Policy states:

The objective of gray propaganda is to advance viewpoints that are in the interest of the originator but that would be more acceptable to target audiences than official statements. The reasoning is that avowedly propagandistic materials from a foreign government or identified propaganda agency might convince few, but the same ideas presented by seemingly neutral outlets would be more persuasive.

Enter the “seemingly neutral” Muslim Reform Movement (MRM). It’s January, 2017,  nativist euphoria is peaking as the demagogue Trump is sworn in as President. This backdrop provides a golden opportunity for the MRM. In league with the Tea-Party backed Republican Kyle Biedermann (who has a penchant for re-creating “gay Hitler”) and Nonie Darwish from the SPLC-listed, AIPAC funded, anti-Muslim hate group the Center for Security Policy (CSP) they sent out a loyalty-oath to Islamic Organisations and Muslim leaders within Texas. The oath is slammed by the American Civil Liberties Union as “un-American” and an affront to the U.S. Constitution.

It is to be Nonie Darwish’s third attempt. Acting as Pamela Geller’s surrogate Darwish had tried the same stunt in 2009 and 2012. The agenda of the founder and President of Arabs For Israel is crystal clear and it certainly isn’t ‘reform’. Darwish considers Islam a “poison” that must be “annihilated”.  To understand why the ostensibly secular-Muslim and progressive Muslim Reform Movement would enter into alliances with anti-Muslim extremists and the Tea-Party’s gay Hitler we must peel back the layers of the organisation itself.

LAYER 1 – The Muslim Reform Movement

Founded in December 2015 the Muslim Reform Movement doesn’t appear to exist much further than on paper. It serves as a credibility vehicle which enables its members to label themselves as “Muslim Reformers” without the inconvenience of ever having to actually reform anything.

Founding member, Zuhdi Jasser candidly observed in 2016 that the Muslim Reform Movement’s greatest achievement to date was their own declaration. This declaration is claimed to be the backbone of the movement, highlighting the three main principles that MRM declare they stand for. One of these three core principles is “Human Rights: Women’s Rights and Minority Rights” in which MRM declares that they “support the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which was adopted by United Nations member states in 1948.”

Upon reading the 1948 UN Declaration, it soon becomes alarmingly apparent that the MRM not only struggles to align itself with these universal standards, but blatantly rejects them. Likening their own declaration to that of the world’s highest governing body is a great idea in theory, however when analysed, this comparison appears extremely hollow and rather deceiving:

1948 UN UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Article 5 “No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment”. Now it is worth noting that one of Donald Trump’s major Presidential campaign promises was of course in direct contradiction to this, when he pledged to ‘broaden’ the laws on torture, allowing it to be brought back. High profile members of the MRM such as Nomani have publicly stated that they voted for Trump. In Nomani’s article justifying her vote, she makes no mention of the policy of torture. Maybe it slipped her mind?

Article 12 – “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks”. In another rejection of this right and therefore the MRM declaration, see Asra Nomani’s support for heightened police surveillance of Muslims here, Zuhdi Jasser’s here, and Raheel Raza’s here.

Article 14 (1) “Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.”. This is perhaps the most openly and vehemently rejected of these rights by those within the MRM. Once again, in stark contrast to their own declaration, MRM members have publicly supported and whitewashed Trump’s ‘Muslim Ban’. In doing so, the MRM not only shows a distinct lack of empathy for those requiring it the most, but also denies them one of their most basic human rights.

Jasser, Nomani and their acolytes at the MRM will tell you that they have their own good reasons for their support of the above policies. However, while that may or may not be true, they would be wise not to pretend that the MRM is founded in Human Rights, whilst simultaneously opposing them. Some might say it makes them look foolish, while others might not be as kind when discovering this ‘public interest’ group’s ‘greatest achievement’, is based on a lie.

The Muslim Reform Movement’s Members

Zuhdi Jasser:  President of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy (AIFD), an organisation heavily financed by pro-Israel and anti-Islam vested interests.  A member of the Christian-Supremacist Council for National Policy. A member of the anti-Islam Gatestone Institute’s International Advisory Council. He sits on the Advisory Board at Clarion for whom he narrated Obsession; a film widely denounced by Jewish leaders for its Islamophobic propaganda and which was cited in the terrorist Anders Breivik’s Manifesto. Consistent Republican Donor.

Asra Nomani: One of the leading “as a Muslim” validators. Has over the years expressed solidarity with the Pamela Geller/Robert Spencer led anti-Muslim protests,  advocated the racial-profiling of Muslims, defended and subsequently participated in Peter King’s McCartyite Muslim Hearings, enthusiastically welcomed the spying-on of innocent Muslims and infamously voted for Trump.

In the week succeeding the January 2017 Quebec mosque shooting, which saw six people shot dead and 19 injured, Nomani tweeted incessantly, sending out over 80 tweets to her 34,000 Twitter followers. Astoundingly however, not one of these tweets even mentions the shooting, the perpetrators and/or expressed any sympathy or solidarity with the victims.

Raheel Raza: Sits on Advisory Board at Clarion. Writes at Gatestone. Director at Tarek Fatah’s Muslim Canadian Congress and President of ‘Muslims Facing Tomorrow’ (MFT).

MFT’s Vice-President is Salim Mansur. He is an academic consultant at Frank Gaffney’s CSP. A Senior Fellow at the Canadian Coalition for Democracies and a board member at the Center for Islamic Pluralism (all pro-Israel). CIP is funded by Daniel Pipes’ Middle East Forum and it’s Executive Director is the Neocon Stefan Schwartz who also sits on the Advisory Board at Raza’s Muslims Facing Tomorrow.

Hasan Mahmud: General Secretary at Raza’s ‘Muslims Facing Tomorrow.  President of the Muslim Canadian Congress which was founded by Tarek Fatah. Fatah is a Fellow at Daniel Pipes’ Middle East Forum and gleefully shares stages with the leader of the Jewish Defence League (JDL) of Canada, Meir Weinstein; who speaks of his “good rapport” with Fatah.

Tahir Aslam Gora: His pro-Israel blog is carried by the Jewish Defence League. He appeases them with wildly anti-muslim claims, such as that “bin Laden (is) a hero in most Islamic countries”.

Tawfik Hamid: A registered speaker at Aish’s Hasbara Fellowship. A self-described ‘Muslim Zionist’. Wrote “Why I Love Israel”.

Usama Hassan: A member of the UK based Quilliam Foundation who are heavily funded by Conservative and Zionist donors and whose Chairman Maajid Nawaz is listed by the SLPC as an “anti Muslim extremist”.

Naser Khader: Senior Fellow at the far right, pro Israel Hudson institute, whose donors include occupation advocate and billionaire Seth Klarman. The Hudson Institute has no qualms in funding extremist Israeli Settler Organisations.

Farahnaz Ispahani: The apparent exception to the rule. Doesn’t follow same pattern as her co-’reformers’. However, her husband and former Pakistani Ambassador Husain Haqqani hosts Israel Lobby fundraisers and has worked for Daniel Pipes.

Courtney Lonergan: Described by Robert Spencer as Jasser’s ‘Assistant’. Director with Jasser at the Arizona Interfaith Movement. Works at Jasser’s AIFD. Wherever you find Jasser, Lonergan is not far away.

Arif Humayun: Another one of Zuhdi Jasser’s minions.  Director at Jasser’s American Islamic Forum for Democracy. Makes up the numbers.

LAYER 2 – The Clarion Project

The Clarion Project (formerly Fund) is a non-profit organisation created in November 2006 by Rabbi Raphael Shore of Aish HaTorah. Clarion has been described by the SPLC as an “anti-Muslim group” that “promotes conspiracy theories” and by Jewish Voice For Peace as an “anti-Muslim hate group”. The Council on American Islamic Relations has labelled The Clarion Project as being “part of the inner core of the U.S. Islamophobia network” and Georgetown University’s Bridge Initiative observed that “among the members of Clarion’s advisory board are Frank Gaffney, Zuhdi Jasser, and Daniel Pipes, well-known commentators who consistently advance misleading or unfounded notions about Islam.”.

Clarion earned its infamous reputation due to their highly inflammatory style, coupled with an anti-muslim bias which underlines the very nature of their work. In 2015 for example, Clarion released an article from ‘research’ which showed that over 8 million people in the Arab world “support” ISIS, and alarmingly, as many as 42 million hold “somewhat positive” views towards them. This article was penned by Muslim Reform Movement Founder(??), and Clarion Editor, Meira Svirksy. In typical Svirsky style, the article, “ISIS Has at Least 42 Million Supporters in the Arab World”, was loaded with alarmist discourse and fear-inducing rhetoric, both of which complemented its highly questionable research. The Bridge Initiative released its own detailed critique of this study, concluding that it was “premised on conflations, inconsistencies, extrapolations, and misrepresentations”.

‘Inconsistencies’ and ‘misrepresentations’ seem to be a common theme arising throughout the work of the Clarion Project. A report from the independent watchdog, Right Web, on Clarion has observed the following:

Among its many questionable claims, the site asserts that “there are 35 Radical Islamic communities spread across the United States” and that the U.S. legal and financial systems have been infiltrated by “Stealth Jihad.”

Many of Clarion’s “fact sheets” have to do with Iran. One such report, titled, “The Iranian Nuclear Program,” reiterates the claim that “evidence abounds” that the Iranian government “long term desire is to obtain nuclear weapons.”

Echoing arguments pushed by neoconservative-aligned groups in Europe, such as the Henry Jackson Society, Clarion has a dedicated page titled “Eurabia” that has characterized Muslim immigration as a global problem irrespective of religious or political ideology.

Aside from fear mongering, error-prone analysis and pseudo reform movements, Clarion has also heavily invested their pro Israel donations into the creation and distribution of anti-Islam propaganda films, most notably it’s first being 2007’s  Obsession.This achieved little more than igniting irrational fears, fanning the flames of islamophobia and smearing Barack Obama, in what critics argued was an attempt to pave the way for John McCain in the 2008 Presidential Election. Following the release of Obsession, Clarion have released 2008’s ‘The Third Jihad’, 2010’s ‘Iranium’ and 2013’s ‘Honor Diaries’.  

Earlier this year, Asra Nomani tweeted: “On all things, we must demystify the propaganda & follow the money”. In a rare moment of clarity, Nomani hits the nail on the head and makes a good argument for further investigation of the Clarion Project. Analysis of who is funding the organisation can provide vital insight into why they produce disingenuous films and misleading studies like the ones mentioned above.

In 2014, Clarion received $238,000 from the Jewish Communal Fund (JFC). The JFC is the America’s biggest Jewish donor advised fund, an organisation enabling the mega rich to donate whilst remaining anonymous. The JFC has propped up multiple anti-muslim organisations in the past such as Pamela Geller’s American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI), provided funding for hardline Zionists such as Aish International (see below), and even financed illegal settlement construction in the Occupied Palestinian Territories via The Jerusalem Foundation. Also in 2014, Clarion received $50,000 from the pro settlement, Irving I Moskowitz Foundation. Moskowitz used this foundation to channel his wealth into building projects of settler movements that work to create a Jewish majority in Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem. Other Clarion Donors have included: The Benjamin Netanyahu-funding billionaire Sheldon Adelson, the conservative christian run Giigle Foundation, fellow anti-muslim financiers The Randolph Foundation and The Snider Foundation, as well as the ‘Sugar Mama of Anti Muslim Hate’, Nina Rosenwald’s affiliate, The William Rosenwald Family Fund.

LAYER 3 – Aish Hatorah (Fire of Torah)

Aish are a Jewish ultra-orthodox outreach (kiruv) movement which attempts to convert secular/atheist Jews to the ultra-conservative Haredi sect. They’ve been described by Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic as “Jewish extremists” and “just about the most fundamentalist movement in Judaism today”. Goldberg recalls a conversation he had with Aish representative Ronn Torossian:

“I think we should kill a hundred Arabs or a thousand Arabs for every one Jew they kill…If someone from a town blows himself up and kills Jews, we should wipe out the town he’s from, kill them all.”

Desperate to fight the ‘threat” of assimilation the late Rabbi Noah Weinberg founded Aish in 1974 in a Jerusalem apartment. Its humble beginnings now a world away from the current Aish behemoth which now spans five Continents and is patronised by celebrities and billionaires.

Today they continue the fight against the “problems” intermarriage and assimilation began by their founder Weinstein – Its mission is to “turn the tide of assimilation”. They segregate by gender. Advocate a nuclear “first strike” on Iran. Its Rabbis demand of Jews eventual “ full and complete observance of the entire Torah”. Further, Aish Rabbis preach that families should disown their apostate family members and only halacha sanctioned divorces are “proper” divorces.

However, Rabbi Weinstein had a cause beyond his war on Jewish assimilation and intermarriage; the state of Israel. He personally provided the seed money to establish The Sderot Media Center. Aish’s site explains “Rabbi Weinberg believed passionately in the idea of Israel activism”.  Weinberg’s Zionist tribalism had an appeal beyond the ultra-Orthodox. He recruited non-religious Jews to his cause. The Israel on Campus Coalition (ICC) was established to “foster support and appreciation for Zionism” and Aish are a member.  Weinberg’s quote below could be seen as the core motive for the Clarion Project’s incessant dehumanising anti-Muslim propaganda.

“If there is a threat to the Jewish nation, or to the Western world, it cannot be ignored. We must meet the challenges facing us head on and do whatever we can to remedy the situation.”

Both Clarion and Aish deny their involvement with the other but the overlaps are manifold, too many to list. ‘Jerusalem U’, likewise founded by Rabbi Raphael (Robert) Shore also denied their links to Aish. However, the links were proven by former Orthodox Jew Shmarya Rosenberg who describes Jerusalem U as “an Aish Hatorah missionary front meant to prey on unsuspecting non-Orthodox Jews”.

The same Raphael Shore is a former Aish employee and the founder and CEO of Clarion. He has produced all of the Clarion anti-Muslim films. His brother Ephraim heads Aish from it’s headquarters in occupied East Jerusalem. All four of its Directors have ties to Aish Hatorah, while Aish and Clarion once even shared an address.  The many links continue up the present. Clarions forthcoming (secretly funded) propaganda film ‘ Kids: Inside The Terror Factory’ is being made by Wayne Kopping of ‘Jerusalem U” and Shoshana Palatnik, daughter of Aish’s Lori Palatnik.

Aish connections are littered throughout Clarion and, as a result, the Muslim Reform Movement. Previously mentioned Clarion Editor, Meira Svirsky, claimed ownership of the Muslim Reform Movement on behalf of Clarion. Svirsky is part of the faculty at Aish Hatorah and is married to an Aish Rabbi. A petition was subsequently initiated on change.org by the “Friends of The Muslim Reform Movement” urging Trump to meet with the MRM. These “friends” are registered as the Clarion Project. The petition was launched on Clarion’s site by the same Meira Svirsky. The seemingly infinite number of links between Clarion and Aish only serve to reinforce an assumption that many observers are already beginning to make: Clarion was formed to act as an ‘independant’, propaganda arm of the Aish International juggernaut.  

LAYER 4 – The Israeli Government

Aish have received strong support from the Israeli Government. They were granted the final two sites adjacent to the Western Wall.  From here, they installed their “Second Temple” opposite the wall. In 2001 The Israeli Foreign Ministry partnered with Aish to create ‘The Hasbara Fellowship”.

The Hasbara Fellowship had a document leaked earlier this year, part of their propaganda booklet that instructed students of what terminology to use when discussing Israel-Palestine. These instructions include:

Instead of Israeli-Palestinian conflict —> Arab/Israeli conflict

Instead of ‘Settlements’ —-> Neighbourhoods

Instead of ‘Hamas/Hezbollah’ —–> ‘Iranian-backed Hamas’, ‘Iranian-backed Hezbollah’.

MRM and Biedermann: a match made in Heaven?

When the MRM sent out their 2016 founding declaration, it was as expected, largely ignored by those it was aimed at. As Jasser describes below:

We spent significant resources on this outreach over a period of ten months. We reached out through snail mail, e-mail, and telephone to over 3,000 mosques and over 500 known public American Muslims. We received only 40-plus rather dismissive responses from our outreach, and sadly less than ten of them were positive. In fact, one mosque in South Carolina left us a vicious voice mail threatening our staff if we contacted them again.

Unsurprisingly however, this declaration did appeal to the Christian conservative, Texas Republican Representative Kyle Biedermann, and his office reached out to Clarion’s ‘reformers’. The MRM held no issue in collaborating with Biedermann, resulting in the widely discredited ‘loyalty oath’, which among other things, aims to poll muslims on the specifics of exactly what they do and do not believe.

That the MRM and Biedermann’s paths would happen to cross, is down to more than just mere coincidence or political networking. Apart from the obvious embrace of far right ideologies, the two share in common a history of controversies which emanate from, among other things, a broken moral compass. The anti-abortion Biedermann can be seen here dressing as a ‘gay Hitler’ while making a Nazi “sieg heil” salute. Taste it appears, is not his strong suit.  

Furthermore, during a messy divorce/custody battle with his ex wife in a Texas district court, some rather disturbing details emerged. Republican Party-affiliated website TexasGOPVote.com, warned of his chequered past during Biedermann’s campaign run, reporting on and providing court documents that show (among other distressing allegations) a district court “judge called Biedermann a ‘very sick’ man who at one point was ordered to stay 100 yards from his family members and to avoid contacting his daughters by telephone”. The article was titled “Court Documents Say Texas House Candidate Kyle Biedermann Mentally Abused his Children; Was Physically Abusive to Their Mother”, and called for further scrutiny on those “candidates for public office who claim to have conservative values”.  

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    • What makes you think Muslims haven’t taken a stand or that they aren’t outraged? Maybe the problem is that you’re not listening.

      Also, you have some homework to do. Go look up as many terrorist attacks perpetrated by Muslims as you can find, and look at their actual statements regarding their motive. In every case I’ve ever examined, all or at least part of the STATED MOTIVE is unjust foreign policy, not blind hatred of the “infidel.”

      Where do you live? Are you American? If you are, maybe instead of pointing fingers at Muslims YOU need to take a stand and express outrage at your OWN GOVERNMENT. Tell them to stop attacking one Muslim-majority country after another and to stop covertly supporting terrorist groups like Al Qaeda and ISIS. Have you done that??? Or are you too busy casting blame on others?

    • Not sure what you’re talking about. It’s the replies that were user deleted.

      The fact [i]s….. <~ Your opinion. Not fact.

    • Awesome

      It seems that the proregressives have returned, albeit with their agenda being a little more obvious this time. As I have said or alluded to before, it is not a coincidence that Islamophobes and those advocating an anti-Islam, anti-Muslim agenda tend to be Zionists.

      Unfortunately, the “bogeyman industry” is very lucrative, in which even those with a Muslim background are willing to sell their religion (if they even had it to begin with) to try and profit from it, in which is also seems to be alluded to in a hadith:

      It is narrated on the authority of Abu Hurayrah that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) observed:

      “Be prompt in doing good deeds (before you are overtaken) by turbulence which would be like a part of the dark night. During (that stormy period) a man would be a Muslim in the morning and an unbeliever in the evening or he would be a believer in the evening and an unbeliever in the morning, and would sell his faith for worldly goods.”

      (Sahih Muslim 118, Book 1, No. 220, 213)

    • GaribaldiOfLoonwatch

      It comes down to how you are reading the Quran and hadith, which interpretation is being privileged. Extremists in religion are, as I said, more interested in power and their own agenda, than a serious, faithful reading of God’s Word, this is why they are misguided and misguide others.

      There has never been a 100% literal interpretation of scripture, even the Dhahiriyya, resort to figurative interpretation.

      What you seemed to have faced on that site is what is quite prevalent on the web, in which people are mean to one another rather than any issue with literal interpretations.

    • GaribaldiOfLoonwatch

      I don’t see where any of the mods are silencing you, I appreciate your questions, they seem sincere.

    • You may know Islam quite well. I simply see no evidence that you do, and some evidence that suggests you really don’t. I don’t think anyone with a solid understanding of Islam would say it can be interpreted any, and suggest there are no consensus of near consensus positions among the scholars. I don’t think so because that doesn’t reflect reality.

      Understand that I don’t care if you ATTEMPT to undermine Muslims. I just pointed out that’s what you are trying to do, and told you that you won’t succeed. Maybe with Muslims who are lukewarm and ignorant of Islam’s teachings, and thus weak in their faith. But those people are fairly likely to leave anyway. As I said, you’re not offering anything fresh or original. You’re repeating the exact same thing we hear everywhere, every single day.

      From my point of view, the only question is whether or not you’re contributing anything useful, and whether or not you should get to use up so much real estate to promote your views. I don’t think people come here to hear someone parrot Maajid Nawaz. I think a lot of people come here to get away from that, and I’m not going to let you ruin their experience. You are not more special and important than the rest of our audience.

Dresden: Police Assume ‘Xenophobic’ Motive In Mosque Attack

dresden_mosque_bomb

Horrible news out of Germany. (h/t Mend)

via. The Guardian

Police suspect a far-right motive after two improvised explosive devices detonated outside a mosque and congress centre in Dresden just before and after 10pm on Monday.

No one was injured during the two attacks in the eastern German city, but the mosque’s 46-year-old imam, his wife and their two children were inside the building when the first bomb went off.

Imam Hamza Turan told Sächsische Zeitung newspaper that six bottles filled with explosive gas had been found at the site of the attack. “They attacked us because they hate us, because we are Muslims”, Turan’s 10-year-old son told the local paper.

The second improvised device exploded on a terrace facing the river Elbe, between the International Congress Centre and the Maritim hotel. The hotel bar was evacuated as a result.

Continue reading…

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NY Daily News: Man Who Made Death Threats Against CAIR Employee Gets Six Months House Arrest

Bernard_Laufer

Mental health is a serious issue that shouldn’t be belittled or easily dismissed but one has to question why Muslims who commit a crime of violence are almost never treated in a like manner. There are people behind bars for plotting or aiding terrorism, due to nothing more than government entrapment, who are certifiable insane and in need of “medical help,” not lengthy jail sentences.

By John Marzulli, NY Daily News

A Queens kook was sentenced Tuesday to six months of house arrest and mental treatment for sending an email threatening to kill an employee of the Council on American Islamic Relations.

Bernhard Laufer, 57, is still facing attempted murder as a hate crime charges in state court for stabbing the caretaker of the Masjid Al-Saaliheen Mosque in Flushing in 2012 after uttering an anti-Muslim epithet.

Laufer made references to the stabbing attack in the vile rants to CAIR in 2014. He was free on $200,000 bail at the time.

“I’m sorry for what I did,” Laufer said in Brooklyn Federal Court. “I was not thinking logically. I need medical help.”

Judge Raymond Dearie said the one year that Laufer has spent in custody since his arrest on the federal charge was sufficient time served. But the judge expressed concern that there is no guarantee that psychiatric hospital will accept Laufer for in-patient treatment.

“I’m sure he’s not an inherently evil person, he just needs help,” Dearie said.

Read the entire article…

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    • Friend of Bosnia

      Where you’re right, you’re right.

    • Nur

      The best way for Muslims to protect themselves is to learn a martial art. It is time that Muslims understand that the western authorities are not on their side, and that they MUST have first and foremost the protection of themselves and their loved ones in mind…and be of heightened awareness.

      After you neutralize a threat is the time you can report it. It is much better for the defender if the threat is incapacitated during the police reporting.

      I am sad that this happens, but Muslims have to be honest and frank and deal with the situation as it is.

    • Reynardine

      This and the Doggett case certainly present an argument that some people’s lives are considered more equal than other people’s.

    • mindy1

      Well on the bright side, he can’t hurt anyone else, although I hope more severe penalties are coming…

Muslim Observer: How Douglas Murray argues

Robert Spencer and Douglas Murray photo

By Haroon Moghul, Muslim Observer

If I had no shame, I’d advertise myself as an expert on Christianity. In fact, if you think about it, I know more about Christianity than most of Islam’s fiercest critics—including former, or unclearly Muslim public spokespersons for the latest round of intellectual Orientalism—do about Islam. Not only do I have Christian friends, but I’ve read the Old Testament, the New Testament, and the Book of Mormon. I grew up in a predominantly Christian town, and live in a predominantly Christian country. Compared to most of our talking heads, I’m a veritable once-in-a-century phenomenon.

I’ve traveled to numerous churches, spoken across the country to many largely Christian audiences, and have visited other mostly Christian countries, like Spain and England, Australia and Canada. Oh, and Mexico. I speak the language of the world’s largest Christian country—fluently. In fact, I’ve even taught writing courses in college honors programs—in English. I’ve written a book in English. I must know everything about everything. But I’m not a white man, so I can’t get away with it.

I also have self-respect, so I don’t want to. I don’t even claim expertise on traditions outside my own. Even within my own. Just yesterday, I received the latest copy of the Hartford Seminary’s The Muslim World, which was guest edited by a friend, the Reverend Douglas Leonard. (Some of my best friends are Christian!) It’s dedicated to Ibadi Islam, the dominant Muslim tradition of Oman. I was ashamed to say that I knew, and still know, very little, about one of traditional Islam’s three branches, being by birth and choice a Sunni Muslim.

But I am happy to learn more.

And yet, every time it turns to Islam, there’s a Bill Maher or Sam Harris, who really know how much about anything Muslim, pronouncing about Islam. Sometimes they even have Muslim interlocutors, who interpret Islam for them. They appear to have no more than ten or twelve of these, who they pass between themselves when most necessary. At no point does anyone ask: On what basis can you claim to speak on nearly 2 billion people? If you really were so concerned to study Islam, would you not make any effort to study something about Islam—considering how many resources you have available—while you pronounce so inelegantly upon it?

Read the entire article…

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  • mindy1

    True

Jews And Muslims: It’s Complicated (IV)

Tinghir

“Tinghir” where Muslim-Jewish coexistence flourished for many years.

Original guest post

By Mehdi

Read Part I, II and III in this series

The separation

After the creation of Israel, Arab populations were overwhelmingly opposed to any appeasement with the state, especially in the context of the massive eviction of two thirds of the Palestinian population (a proper ethnic cleansing as stated by Israeli historian Illan Pappe).

Many Arab Jews were also radically Anti-Zionist, such as the prominent political activist Henri Curiel. Curiel formed an important network to support the struggle of several liberation movements, including the Algerian FLN during the war of independence against the French. A recent documentary on Egyptian Jews mentions his unheeded warnings to Gamal Abdel-Nasser regarding the 1956 French-British-Israeli aggression. His murder in 1978 remains unresolved, though recent revelations suggest that he was the victim of a former French-Algeria nostalgic.

Other Anti-Zionist personalities included individuals such as Abraham Serfaty and Chehata Haroun, who refused to leave Egypt and had the following written on his grave:

“Every human being has several identities. I am a human being. I am Egyptian when Egyptians are suffering, I am black when blacks are suffering, I am Jewish when Jews are suffering and I am a Palestinian when Palestinians are suffering.”

Most Arab countries witnessed riots and unrest following the combination of the birth of Israel and the Nakba. These riots took place in a context of existing unrest, as most Arab countries were fighting for their independence. In Morocco, for instance, several riots targeted Jews after the 1948 events, but other riots and violent attacks also targeted French settlers during the same period.

While there were several dimensions to violence in Arab countries at the time, these events were still frightening to many Arab Jews who started thinking of leaving their countries. Israel also deployed several means to either convince or simply push Arab Jews to emigration; the law of return was enacted partly for that sake.

In Arab states, the Israeli Mossad deployed many operations, from financial arrangements, propaganda, to covert operations that included deliberate sabotage.

In parallel, the rise of Arab nationalist discourse pushing for independence, and strongly opposed to any Western imperialist interference did not build an inclusive discourse for minorities (whether Jewish, Armenian, Greek, or others), despite the initial efforts of leaders such as Habib Bourguiba in Tunisia, or King Mohammed 5 in Morocco.

Jews-Morocco The growing tensions within Arab countries, during the independence struggle (as in Algeria), or against Israel (as in the 1956 Suez aggression by Israel, France, and the UK against Egypt) put Jews in an uncomfortable situation, sometimes used as scapegoats, and sometimes pressed to loudly proclaim their allegiance and loyalty. The distance between Jews and their compatriots grew larger and many started to leave, either towards Israel or Western countries.

  • In Morocco, from 1948 until the country’s independence in 1956, Israel’s interest was not great and the French colonial authorities turned a blind eye. After the 1956 independence, King Mohamed 5 wanted to maintain Jewish presence in the country (he had taken several stands to protect Moroccan Jews against Vichy laws during WW2), and refused any type of cooperation with Israeli authorities; departures were then mostly clandestine. After his death in 1961, King Hassan 2 cooperated with the Mossad to push Moroccan Jews to expatriate, this was part of a large deal involving security arrangements, sales of weapons and exchange of intelligence labelled Operation Arche and confirmed by figures such as historian Yigal Bin-Nun. No expelling of Jews happened and many Moroccan Jews chose to go live in Canada and France, but the consequence is that the majority of the 300,000 Jews who lived in Morocco when the country became independent are now gone.
  • In Egypt, there were episodes of riots and violence against Jews, but the Lavon affair showed that the Israeli secret services also deliberately conducted sabotage operations (and not only in Egypt) to scare people into leaving. The attitude of the Egyptian authorities was mostly repressive (in a context where Nasser and the free officers had just reached power and were eager to demonstrate a strong stance towards British imperialism, before the 1956 Suez aggression). Minorities such as Greeks, Armenians, or Jews were targeted and smeared as Trojan horses for imperialism and Zionism and gradually became scapegoats and targets of aggressive rhetoric. These stances scared Egyptian Jews who felt they would not be sufficiently protected, and convinced most of them that they would be better off leaving.
  • In Iraq and Syria there had been episodes of violence during WW2, such as the horrible 1941 Baghdad pogrom (which happened in the context of a British intervention to topple the Iraqi government). In 1951, the Iraqi Government established a law that made the advocating of Zionism or belonging to a Zionist organization a crime and ordered the expulsion of Jews who refused to sign a statement of anti-Zionism, the implementation of such a law in an arbitrary dictatorial regime made it easy to target anyone and put Iraqi Jews under pressure. The combination of Mossad covert operations and incendiary nationalist discourse and violence (not only directed at Jews but also towards Shiites, Christians and other minorities) led most Jews to leave their country.
  • Countries like Algeria and Tunisia saw most Jews choosing to go live in France. The effects of the growing social divide resulting from the Crémieux decree in Algeria, the atmosphere of the fratricidal independence warfare made the situation dangerous for any person assumed as linked to French colonialism. It also forced most Muslim “harki” collaborationists to flee the country (while several others were massacred after being abandoned by the French army). Overall, the Jews’ departure in both these countries is part of the general emigration that took place at independence and not really the result of specific Anti-Jewish campaigns. On the other hand, the 1963 Algerian nationality code stated that a pre-condition for citizenship was having Muslim paternal fathers and grandfathers; Jews had to undergo a special process to request citizenship. Such a measure was not only insulting for the many Jews who had fought for independence, it sent a signal to most Jews that they had little to no room in the future of the country and convinced them to emigrate.
  • In Iran, while some emigration took place, many Jews still live there even after the 1979 revolution, they have the possibility to travel every year to visit their relatives in Israel, usually via. Turkey, with both Israeli and Iranian authorities choosing to turn a blind eye.

These examples do not offer a comprehensive outlook of Jewish emigrations from Arab and Middle Eastern countries (the Wikipedia page on this topic offers good context) but they give some perspective. Unlike in Palestine in 1948, there never was any organized campaign to expel Arab Jews, the failure of Arab nationalists in particular and state leaders in general is that they didn’t convince them to stay and failed to give them confidence about their place in the new nations.

The claims that Arab Jews were massively expelled has to be looked at as Israeli counter-propaganda to establish a moral equivalent with the fate of Palestinians in 1948.

Still, the sad fact is that by the end the 1960s, the overwhelming majority of Arab Jews had left their country, either moving to Israel or to Western countries such as the USA, Canada and France. They were now separated from their Muslim compatriots, which meant a loss to most Arab countries, whose diversity was an immense source of cultural wealth, and whose national narrative had now shifted to a chauvinistic narrow discourse.

On the other hand, Arab Jews did not receive a particularly great welcome in Israel, where they underwent significant discrimination by the Israeli authorities, mirroring a Western-Oriental divide between Israelis, where the establishment (symbolized by Askhenazi Europeans) discriminated against Arab-speaking immigrants.

The discrimination they suffered is still a bad memory for many “Oriental Jews” who created protest movements such as the Israeli Black Panthers and have overwhelmingly voted against the Labor party since. Wounds have begun to heal with the increasing integration of Arab Jews into Israeli society.

MizrahiThe 1967 war and the crushing of Arab armies by the Israeli offensive went one stage further in widening the gap and the nature of the conflict. On the Israeli side, it gave a morale boost to the religious right and helped them pressure the government to allow and fund massive settlement building in the occupied territories, thus increasing their political importance in the Israeli social-political landscape.

On the Arab side, the 1967 defeat was a massive blow to the Arab nationalist movement, which had many flaws, was authoritarian, but was still trying to build some form of Arab autonomy while trying to provide room for minorities. The defeat gave way to the rise of Muslim conservative and fundamentalist movements, whose discourse provided little to no room for minorities, especially Jews. In both cases, the results were disastrous for whoever favored coexistence.

Beside the increased divide, there was also the emergence of Anti-Semitism, often borrowed from Western Anti-Semitism. This discourse is punctuated by invitations and publicity for: holocaust deniers such as Roger Garaudy and Robert Faurrisson in Lebanon and Iran, successful sales of purely Anti-Semitic propaganda such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion or even Mein Kampf in Lebanon and Egypt, conspiracy theories about 9/11 being a Jewish plot, several shameful talk shows or TV series such as the Egyptian “Horseless rider” (the plot stars a virtual horseman who slays the “Zionist dragon” and denounces a “Jewish conspiracy against Palestine” inspired by the Protocols of the Elders of Zion).

In Western societies there has also been a limited but real rise in Anti-Semitism among some Muslim communities. In the UK, it was acknowledged and condemned by Mehdi Hasan, and this tendency also exists in other European countries, as shown in the recent violent events in Sarcelles, following summer protests against the war on Gaza, the kosher market attack in Paris, or the attack on a synagogue in Copenhagen.

The scale of these events is subject to manipulation (Islamophobes tend to exaggerate their scale while a tendency for denial exists on the other end of the spectrum), but in any case they represent a very worrisome trend and regression. The increase in Anti-Semitism should be fought and condemned, as it was by prominent critics of Israeli policies, such as Lebanese writer Elias Khoury, or Beirut based reporter Robert Fisk, and the late Edward Said, whose words remain as relevant as ever.

Why do we expect the world to believe our sufferings as Arabs if we cannot recognize the sufferings of others, even of our oppressors, and we cannot deal with facts that trouble simplistic ideas of the sort propagated by bien-pensants intellectuals who refuse to see the relationship between the holocaust and Israel. Again, let me repeat that I cannot accept the idea that the holocaust excuses Zionism for what it has done to Palestinians: far from it. I say exactly the opposite, that by recognizing the holocaust for the genocidal madness that it was, we can then demand from Israelis and Jews the right to link the holocaust to Zionist injustices towards the Palestinian, link and criticise the link for its hypocrisy and flawed moral logic.

But to support the efforts of Roger Garaudy and his holocaust-denying friends in the name of “freedom of opinion” is a silly ruse that discredits us more than we already are discredited in the world’s eyes for our incompetence, our failure to fight a decent battle, our radical misunderstanding of history and the world we live in. Why don’t we fight harder for freedom of opinions in our own societies, a freedom, no one needs to be told, that scarcely exists?

When I mentioned the holocaust in an article I wrote last November, I received more stupid vilification than I ever thought possible; one famous intellectual even accused me of trying to gain a certificate of good behaviour from the Zionist lobby. Of course, I support Garaudy’s right to say what he pleases and I oppose the wretched loi Gayssot under which he was prosecuted and condemned). But I also think that what he says is trivial and irresponsible, and when we endorse it, it allies us necessarily with Le Pen and all the retrograde right-wing fascist elements in French society.

No, our battle is for democracy and equal rights, for a secular commonwealth or state in which all the members are equal citizens, in which the concept underlying our goal is a secular notion of citizenship and belonging, not some mythological essence or an idea that derives its authority from the remote past, whether that past is Christian, Jewish or Muslim. As I said, the genius of Arab civilization at its height in, say, Andalusia was its multicultural, multi-religious and multi-ethnic diversity. That is the ideal that should be moving our efforts now, in the wake of an embalmed, and dead Oslo, and an equally dead rejectionism. The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life, as the Bible says.

As a mirror effect, Islamophobia has also risen to the point of becoming common among political parties in many Western countries and in Israel. It has been promoted by many organizations, including several Zionist pro-Israeli support groups, who fully embrace the concept of the so-called “war on terror.”

Loonwatch has done thorough work debunking these Islamophobic campaigns, there is no need to list them. Nevertheless, the striking aspect is how organizations with different agendas and objectives, such as US and European pro-Israeli support groups, neoconservative intellectuals, European extreme right wing parties, and some personalities coming from the left wing all stand side by side on an ideological anti-Muslim crusade.

Historically, the horrors of the holocaust have positioned many Jewish intellectuals and political organizations at the forefront of Anti-racist and other universal struggles (such as the protection of Bosnian Muslims during the horrific ethnic cleansing and massacres in the 1990s). This history makes it sad to notice that several Jewish mainstream organizations (such as the French CRIF) have either kept silent if not actually supported Islamophobic campaigns.

In 2002, after Jean Marie Le Pen reached the second round of the French presidential election, the president of the CRIF (representative body for Jewish organizations in France) declared that this was a signal for Muslims to keep quiet, completely forgetting about the Anti-Semitic dimension of Le Pen’s party. In perspective, mirroring Anti-Semitic regression among Muslims, a regressive Islamophobic trend has also emerged among Jews, as many prominent intellectuals and organizations are so blinded by their unconditional support for any Israeli policy that they openly befriend populist parties that have a heavy Anti-Semitic past. One illustrative example of this paradox is when Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman received a delegation of extreme right wing parties in 2010, including personalities such as Geert Wilders, Belgian Philippe Dewinter, Swedish Kent Ekeroth, or representatives from the Danish people’s party.

It remains the case that contemporary politics in Israel and the Arab world are dominated by movements that are either not interested in promoting multi-faith coexistence (if they are not actively fighting it). This is the case for most Arab regimes, and both nationalist and Muslim conservative movements.

The outlook is similarly ugly for the Zionist spectrum, now strongly leaning to the right (if not the extreme right), where racist discourse has become mainstream. Discourse in favor of coexistence with the Israeli Arab minority and Palestinians in the occupied territories is largely only promoted by what is termed the “extreme left wing” and some prominent figures such as former Knesset chairman Avraham Burg, veteran peace activist Uri Avnery, journalists such as Amira Hass or Gideon Levy, and other pacifists.

For Muslims and Jews who had coexisted for years, the resulting situation and tensions we see today are purely depressing; this leaves the question of what to do.

What now?

As shown above, separation between Muslims and Jews in the Muslim world is now a fact and will be difficult to reverse. The wounds of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the post-9/11 atmosphere has created suspicion and distance. The relationship is not completely broken but a lot of work has to be done in order to fix things.

As explained in the introduction of this article series, my view of history is driven by my personal background and my family’s positive experiences. Obviously, my narrative is quite subjective. I am sure that many people will disagree, either with the overall perspective, or with some specific details, what I hope most people will agree with me is about the urgency of inventing new forms of coexistence.

While Jewish/Muslim relations are not monolithic, and are driven by local considerations, many points need to be highlighted. First of all, coexistence should be reinvented, the terms of coexistence that existed a few centuries ago are not applicable to the modern world; Jews and Muslims both expect equality. Coexistence will happen in different places from the past, while it existed mostly in Arab and Muslim lands before, it is now more likely to happen in Western countries and in Israel/Palestine, as these are the places where significant Jewish/Muslim communities tend to live side by side (for instance in France, the United States, Israel/Palestine, the United Kingdom or Netherlands).

Building a new model of coexistence also goes hand in hand with a common fight against bigotry. Jewish and Muslim anti-racist organizations should help each other more when Anti-Semitism or Islamophobia emerges, this already occurs, but it has to happen systematically. The sight of Jews supporting Islamophobia or Muslims supporting Anti-Semitism is a pure disgrace and at odds with history, this has to be fought fiercely.

Common Jewish/Muslim initiatives, whether involving history seminars, arts, sports, or any concrete project should be encouraged, people (especially the youth) should be given more opportunities to meet and talk. Bigotry and hostility towards others are less likely when they have a face, a name, and when they can be related to with an anecdote or joke. Creating sustainable relations between people is what helps solve problems.

Most of all, no long term solution can be considered if it does not include a fair and sustainable solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, a solution that addresses the plight and suffering of the Palestinians, whether the ones in the occupied territories, in Israel, or the refugees, and addresses their political rights to self-determination and independence.

Such solutions should also provide assurance to Jews that they can live safely and in peace with their neighbors. Arab Jews who want to live in Arab countries should also be given the opportunity to do so. Whether a solution involves a single state or a two-state solution is a different matter (the prospect of a two-state solution is more unlikely than ever).

Despite the legitimate criticism that can be made of Palestinian organizations such as Hamas, the Israeli government’s attitude, its unrestrained usage of violence and its settlement policy are the main hurdles.

The recent horror of the Gaza massacre shows that this is not an even fight, just as peace was achieved in South Africa by addressing the suffering of the victims of apartheid, the focus should be about protecting the Palestinians and guaranteeing their rights. If this doesn’t change, no good can be expected, and things will keep going downhill for Jewish-Muslim relationships.

Prospects look dark for now, intellectuals who identify themselves as “Liberal Zionists” need to face the political and ideological contradictions that they have been evading regarding the peace framework that they want to establish, and their vision about how to guarantee Palestinians’ rights and end their suffering. As peace activist Uri Avnery had once put it in 2008:

… Something like this is now happening to the Revisionists themselves. They ask for three things: a Jewish State, a state that encompasses all of historic Palestine and a democratic state. That is too much even for God. So a Revisionist must choose two of the three: a Jewish and democratic state in only a part of the country, a Jewish state in all the country that will not be democratic, or a democratic state in all the country that will not be Jewish. This dilemma has not changed over the last 41 years.

6 years later, the dilemma is still as relevant as ever, but the first option (a Jewish and democratic state in one part of the country) which would guarantee two states is less likely, the points raised by Avnery still require an answer and cannot be evaded any longer.

Beside the Israeli-Palestinian front, more effort should be put on teaching common Jewish/Muslim history. In his book “Defeating Hitler”, former Knesset chairman Avraham Burg had suggested the Israeli education system to focus more on positive experiences such as Andalusia, to show children that Jewish history is not only made of tragedies.

Similarly, in Muslim countries, especially the ones that have a strong Jewish history, children should learn more about the multi-faith and multi-cultural dimension of their past. This does not mean that the negative moments and periods (explained above) should be evaded, quite the contrary, tensions begin and grow in the shadows when such topics are avoided.

These suggestions may sound naïve and insufficient to some, especially in light of the never ending tragedy unfolding in the holy land, but they are a positive, practical first step; it would be unforgivable not to try .

Peace1

To conclude this overview, I would like to come back to two people who symbolize better than anyone else the profound sense of coexistence and tolerance.

The first person is named Yacout and appears in Kamal Hachkar’s movie “Tinghir Jerusalem” mentioned in the beginning of this article. This Jewish Amazigh lady was born in Kelaat Mgouna in south east of Morocco and grew in Casablanca, dressed like any Moroccan woman, she emigrated to Israel and made an unplanned but magnificent appearance in the movie. Speaking with emotion about her fond memories of her childhood in Morocco (sending virtual kisses whenever mentioning Muslims) and how well she remembers her Muslim neighbors (apologies, video is in Arabic/Hebrew with French subtitles), and simply expresses her despair about why land is subject to such hatred.

The second person is called Lahcen, a Moroccan Muslim Berber not far away from Tarudant in the south, who, in the 1950s made a promise to his Jewish friend, Moshe, on the point of emigrating to Israel. From then on, he would look after Moshe’s family’s graves, regularly buying paint to maintain Jewish scriptures and made a point of sticking to his promise.

Lahcen These two wonderful people unfortunately passed away in 2014, they are anonymous people who witnessed the devastating effects that history can have on people’s lives. They weren’t prominent intellectuals or scholars who could speak at length about history, but they both had their own simple words, and humble way of practicing tolerance and the best of what our civilizations have produced.

Now that this generation is slowly leaving the stage, the challenge we face is to keep their message alive and reinvent it in the context of our time. In other words, the challenge is to renew and reinvent peace/shalom/salam.

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    • Mehdi

      Most of your points are accurate but I think that there is little to demonstrate massive popularity of fascism, it’s mostly anti-colonialism, and in many cases it didn’t lead to real collaboration. Comparatively, Ukrain provided much more support for instance to SS units or to nazis as a whole, or take south east Asia and how the Japanese were originally received. But in the end, very interesting argument. And btw, even if I’m proud of Moroccan troops’ achievements during WW2 (one of my best childhood memories was hearing a Moroccan veteran telling me his WW2 memories while fishing in the south), Algerians also deserve also credit for their achievements there. Another story, Mbarek El Bekkay, Morocco’s first post-independence prime minister lost his leg fighting german troops in France in 1940 and spent several months as a war prisoner. There are so many such stories.

    • Mehdi

      You make a lot of points, some I agree with and some less, but your views are well articulated. I just want to respond on nazi propaganda and Hussaini. There is no denying that there were some Arab nationalists who were attracted by fascism and even considered allying with the nazis during WW2, that has to be looked at from 2 angles: 1) This tendency was universal and not specific to the Arab world then, whether in Western or Eastern Europe, South East Asia, Latin America, etc. Fascim was a strong political current and was also seen as an alternative in colonized nations through the wrong but usual discourse of “My enemy’s enemy is my friend”. In general that was as far as it went for most Arab nationalists, they just considered allying or discussing with the Germans (as several Asians did the same with the Japanese only to realize they were no better). In some sense, even a Zionist movement such as Lehi considered discussing with the nazis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29 2) In general, the overwhelming majority of Arab movements were on the side of the allies by a huge margin. I will come back below to Husseini but the only Muslim pro-nazi units he built up operated in Yugoslavia and were involved in local fighting, their impact was marginal, comparatively, north African fighters provided a massive figthing force for the French and played a key role in Italy (especially the Monte Cassino battle), during the liberation of southern France or when crossing the Rhine. The only country where there was a strong political movement leaning towards nazism was Iraq and that didn’t last long during WW2. Al Hussaini is a good example but his role is much more a contemporary tool used to establish some form of Arab involvement in the holocaust than a leader with a key role. What did he accomplish during WW2? His role was minor during the 1936-39 intifada, he seeked support form Hitler, who used him for propaganda reasons, but apart from creating some SS units in Yugoslavia, he had no active role nor any results to claim credit for, he was a minor pathetic opportunistic self-proclaimed leader and is being given a strong role, mostly for pro-israeli contemporary political purposes. As Gilbert Achcar points out “the entry on the mufti in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, published in association with Yad Vashem (the Holocaust remembrance authority), is much longer than those on Himmler, Goebbels or Eichmann, and only a little shorter than that on Hitler”. Yes, longer than Himmler, Goebbels, or Eichmann… More details here: http://mondediplo.com/2010/05/14blamethemufti Thanks for your comment, lots of interesting points in any case.

    • Mehdi

      Thanks a lot…

    • The greenmantle

      Gufo yourself !

      Sir David

    • The greenmantle

      Nurse ! Nurse! He is off his meds again come quickly .

      Sir David

    • Mehdi

      Of course I knew it was a joke. As for what is right or wrong, does it really matter if madeeh or madih? In the end it’s just a transcription from Arabic.. In morocco we tend to say mad’h.

    • You sound like taking my silly joke about paying me rewards seriously. I do hope that I am wrong in this assumption. Which is more correct Madih or Madeeh ? and Tafsir or Tafseer ? I really do not know. Will appreciate your help. .

    • Mehdi

      I never thought I would afford madih in my life, I need to be careful now to fall into some form of complacency or vanity… Thanks anyway

    • I wonder which is more correct to write the word ” Madih ” in English, as you have used it as ” Madih ” or as Madeeh ” ? The same question about the word ” Tafsir ” or ” Tafseer ” ? Which is more correct? Madih or Madeeh reminds me of what Abu-Altaiyeb Al-Mutanabi, one of the greatest Arab poets, had done in poetry to Kafour, the ruler who once ruled Egypt: when he has good relationship with Kafour, he made great Madih or Madeeh about Kafour. But when his relationship with Kafour had deteriorated he made great poetry, but really horrible ” Higa’a,” meaning: ” Condemnation ” in a real nasty manner I refrain from translating it in public. Moreover, some of the poets, in Baghdad during the Abbaside’s splendid era, used to make Madih or Madeeh to the rulers for rewards in Dinars. Well, I have made Madih to you free of any obligation for rewards–Just joking, Mehdi.

  • Mehdi

    Dear mister Sodium, Same kindness, since you’re an amateur of Arab poetry, I will call this a form of “madih”

Pig’s Head At Blackpool Mosque: Four Face Jail

Blackpool-Gazette-front-page

Is it a shocking attack? Perhaps, but there have been many such incidences and to myself is not that surprising. Is it insulting? Perhaps since the intent was malicious but how long is it going to take for the Islamophobic dolts who continue to commit such acts to realize that Muslims aren’t going to melt at the sight of a pig, they just can’t eat them.

via. IslamophobiaWatch

A pig’s head was left in the grounds of a mosque in a “shocking” and “insulting” attack.

The offence, which took place just two days after the murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby by Islamic extremists, “sent a shiver” down the spine of a volunteer at Blackpool Central Mosque, Preston Crown Court heard.

But today the mosque’s Imam, Ashfaq Patel, called on the judge in the case not to jail the four men who 
admitted religiously aggravated intentional harassment, alarm or distress. He said: “I don’t think they should be put behind bars.”

However, a judge warned the four Fylde coast men they could potentially face up to two years in prison.

Blackpool Gazette, 15 November 2014

Read the full report here.

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    • Friend of Bosnia

      Yes, and the poor animals, they haven’t done anything at all. Why kill them.

    • HSkol

      The misconceptions within the small minds of Islamophobes (that pig parts are to Muslims what Kryptonite is to Superman) is not only utterly immature and unsettling, it is quite telling. These people will do anything to show their inner-most hatred and fear of Muslims. Symbolism can be strong though. I am quite humbled by this Imam that he is so well collected and rational that he seems to have seen this as a senseless act rather than a punishable, malicious act. I myself see this as purely malicious – intended to instill fear.

    • Friend of Bosnia

      Yes, to kill the poor beasties for that…

    • Voice of Reason

      And the Islamophobes continue to grow more sophisticated in their attacks

    • mindy1

      I get so sick and tired of this juvenile immature crap >:(

Rev. Deacon Robert Spencer’s Ally Pastor Usama Dakdok Wants Another 9/11

Pastor Usama Dakdok, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer.

Pastor Usama Dakdok, Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer.

By Mooneye

Last week Will Coley of Muslims for Liberty was a featured guest on Liberty Radio Ohio for a discussion on the relationship between Islam, Muslims, America and politics. His interview is worth listening to and begins at 53:26 as he delves into many subjects and also responds to the guest who preceded him, Pastor Usama “Muslims are demons” Dakdok.

Dakdok is an extremist preacher and good friends with Rev. Deacon Robert Spencer. The interview was amazing for the sheer lunacy and vile hatred Dakdok was able to spew in just a few minutes.

The interview with Pastor Dakdok begins at 25:50, below are some of the “gems” he spewed in what essentially was a 25 minute tirade.

*****************************************

On CAIR. He thinks they wear wonderful suits:

Pastor Usama Dakdok: CAIR is a big lawyers here in America, they are here to literally take over America with a smile on the face wearing these wonderful suits and ties.

Pastor Dakdok believes religions are vegetables in a bowl of soup and Islam doesn’t fit into the soup because it’s poison.

Bill Yarborough: What should the place of religion be in America in relation to our government or political system?

Pastor Dakdok: Well brother there is a big difference when you say Atheism, Buddhism, Agnosticism whatever…and when you put Islam into it. It’s like me and you eating a dish of soup and you can put 50 different vegetables into it. See the Coexist stickers which you see many times on cars that say ‘lets all get along.,’ America’s a melting pot. Co-exist can exist but when you add Islam to it, it cannot exist. So when you add Islam to the soup which you have 50 vegetables in it and everybody enjoy eating this soup when you add one spoon of poison to this soup it’s no longer soup.

Not only doesn’t Islam fit the bowl of religious vegetable soup but it’s a cult and Muslims shouldn’t be allowed to legally exist in America; they are here to takeover and have already infiltrated government. I wonder if this is what Rev. Deacon Spencer means when he says that Muslims should be brought up on charges of “sedition.”

Pastor Dakdok: “Islam is a very wicked cult. It is illegal for Muslims to live in America. Why? Because that is cult that teaches no freedom of religion.”

Pastor Dakdok: “Muslim in America my friends are not here to become Americans and enjoy our freedoms, they are here to spread Shariah, they are here to takeover America for Allah.

It is illegal for Muslims to breathe air inside the America therefore we should never allow Muslims to be anywhere in our government and sadly the last five years the Muslim Brotherhood, the Muslim Jihadi are in the White House, they are in the FBI, they are in the CIA, they are in the Homeland Security. They are here to infiltrate America through our education, through our political arena, through the media, so that’s exactly what happening in America.”

The radio host then asks Dakdok a sensible question abou what his solution is to the so-called “Islam problem”? Dakdok’s answer is that it would be better to have another 9/11 than Muslims in government like Rep. Keith Ellison.

Bill Yarbrough: “If, indeed, Islam cannot exist within our framework of laws and Constitutional protections and they are truly mutually exclusive, what is the remedy, what are you proposing from a political, legal perspective that would remedy that? If you had a magic wand what would occur so we don’t have any of the dangers of which you speak?”

Pastor Dakdok:”Well, we believe if the American people read the Quran which we have translated in our ministry, it took us four years and we sent that copy to every senator and Congress member and highest justice of the Supreme Court and I doubt any of those people have read it.

If the the American people read the Quran they will stop a man like Keith Ellison from the district of Minnesota to swear on the Quran. The man is swearing on a book that commands to kill every American until the last American become Muslim.

And if the American people read the Quran they will never allow a Muslim senator or President like Obama, or a Muslim Congressman like Keith Ellison to run for this offices.

America is losing America from inside…I don’t want the government to tell me what religion I should believe in but by allowing, giving the government the freedom to allow Muslims to run for office, to educate our children, to bring the new generation you are kissing your country completely good bye. I wish we have another September 11th, better, much better than to have Muslim senator and Muslim Congressman, Muslim mayor and Muslim educating our children on the propaganda of Islam because that is destroying the foundation of America.”

Usama ends his rant with, “We love Muslims, we want you to know the love of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.” Isn’t he merciful?

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    • Christian-Friend

      The question is: what are you implying?

    • Randy

      Oh, you’re a moderator? Okay! Coherent assertion? Okay? You can’t comprehend what I’ve said? Okay! We’ll leave it at that. Again, we’re done! I’m most certain you will need to have the last word, so please blab away.

      (NOW, TRY TO COMPREHEND THIS: I WILL NOT RESPOND)

    • Sam Seed

      The important thing my friend is that ‘God loves you’, that is all.

    • Laila Muhammad

      promoting fear is very profitable to isamaphobes….we as muslims have been targeted..we are cannon fodder for what don rumsfeld called a ‘100 yr war’…god protect us

    • Rights

      Me used to chase them things as a child on dry, windy days in the countryside. What a joy that was! Can’t quite explain it. Made me nostalgic. Those were the days! Gone. Never to come back.

    • Rights

      Lancaster’s judgment was truly prophetic when it comes to the “Papists” part. But the “Mahometans” have taken nothing yet.

    • Sam Seed

      Sorry that was in response to Ilisha.

    • Tanveer Khan

      El Cid confuses me so much. There’s his comment to me which I mostly agree with, then that comment and the afghan girl comment…

    • Reynardine

      Uh…we’ve figured out who you are, actually.

    • Tanveer Khan

      That’s enough to turn any man into a bigot.

    • Tanveer Khan

      Yeah, I saw that.

    • Reynardine

      I hate to be vulgar, but I suspect his own tailor made his center seam painfully short.

    • Sam Seed

      Ok, just gone and done that, hope he wins!

    • Sam Seed

      Here’s how he describes himself on his blog The Straight Way Ministry:-

      “Hello, My name is Usama Dakdok. I was born in Egypt and I grew up in a Christian home. But as I grew up in school in Egypt, a government school, and through all these years that I was in school, I learned about Islam, like every other student in a Muslim country. I came to America in 1992, and I found out that there were many Muslims in America. I said, “What a great ministry for me to do right here.”

      With all the knowledge that I have about Islam, I can reach out to the Muslim people with the word of Jesus Christ. That is why we began The Straight Way of Grace Ministry.

      Please look around my website. There are many resources available to you as a Muslimto get to know the Lord, Jesus Christ, better. You who may want to learn more about the religion of Islam and how you might reach out to those in this faith with the word of our Savior. Please contact us if you would like us to personally visit your church or organization and share our good news!

      God loves you, my friend.”

    • Tanveer Khan

      Usama Dakdok? ….. XD

    • “But let us remember that we form a government for millions not yet in existence. I have not the art of divination. In the course of four or five hundred years, I do not know how it will work. This is most certain, that Papists may occupy that chair, and Mahometans may take it.” – William Lancaster – delegate to the North Carolina convention to ratify the Constitution

    • Seeker

      Sure they do. And they get thrown off when they meet the non-stereotypical Muslim. Those in the wonderful suits and ties; instead of some torn rags of desert attire.

Neo-Nazi who Was Defended by Robert Spencer Arrested by the FBI

In May of 2010, Douglas Story‘s vehicle was photographed containing anti-Islam slogans and neo-Nazi symbols:

Is this the back of some neo-nazi’s truck, or the cover of Robert Spencer’s next book?

CAIR filed a complaint with the Virginia Department of Transportation about the “license plate of Douglas Story” claiming that the numbers “14” and “88” were symbolic neo-Nazi code.

As Loonwatch contributor Rousseau reported at the time,

CAIR picked up on this loony truck driver’s mural and then apparently noticed his license plate number, which read “14CV88.” Ibrahim Hooper, communications director of CAIR, argued that this number was code for neo-Nazi white supremacist ideas; Hooper explained: “…Among neo-Nazis, 88 refers to ‘Heil Hitler,’ because H is the eighth letter of the alphabet. White supremacists sometimes use the number 14 as shorthand for the 14-word motto, ‘We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.’”

Story denied being a neo-Nazi, saying instead that the numbers on his license plate referred to his favorite NASCAR racers. This turned out to be a lie…more anti-Muslim so-called taqiyyah if you will.

CAIR was correct that Story was a White Supremacist. The Washington Post’s Brigid Schulte reported just a couple of days later that Douglas Story’s Facebook page was replete with white supremacist associations:

Arguing that his license plate was purely about NASCAR and had nothing to do with race, Story told me that he had a Jewish sister-in-law and had attended his niece’s bat mitzvah. He denied being anti-Semitic.

But here’s how he describes himself on Facebook:

“100% WHITE MAN, 100% ARYAN, 100% PRO-LIFE (Children are innocent), 100% PRO DEATH PENALTY (Criminal Scum aren’t innocent). Over the past 28 years; I, like David Duke, have had an Awakening.”

Note to self: In these days of social media, Twitter and personal oversharing on the web, always check Facebook…

When I called Story to ask about the Facebook page, he continued to maintain that his license plate message had nothing to with racism. He stuck by his NASCAR story. “Southern white men. Southern white sport. What else needs to be said?” he said.

Story acknowledged that he thinks of himself as 100 percent Aryan. “Aryan is a Sanskrit word that means noble,” he said, “no matter what spin the liberal media tries to put on it as being a racist, hate word.”

He said he is an admirer of David Duke, who, he said was “reamed by the media because of his Klan affiliations.” “I am a white nationalist,” Story said. “I am in favor of the whites having their own homeland.” When I asked him where that homeland would be, he said he didn’t know. “The Pacific Northwest maybe. Alaska. Denmark. Greenland. Iceland.”

I asked if he really thought that the Holocaust was a hoax. “I don’t know what to think,” he said.

Rather than condemn Story, Spencer offered this initial defense,

Hamas-linked CAIR smears anti-jihad Virginia driver as Neo-Nazi

…CAIR’s whole story was false in the first place: the driver in question, Douglas Story, is not a neo-Nazi at all, but a racing fan. The alleged code numbers for neo-Nazi slogans were actually favorite race car drivers’ numbers.

Will Honest Ibe Hooper apologize to Douglas Story? Come on, Ibe! It would be the decent thing to do!

Spencer also argued the entire episode was a ploy by CAIR to link “anti-jihadists” like Spencer to neo-Nazi white supremacists,

The implication of the story, of course, was that anti-jihadists are neo-Nazis — which, despite the febrile fantasies of libelblogger Charles Johnson and his cohort, CAIR’s amiable stomach-stapled beekeeper Honest Ibe Hooper, flies in the face of the facts…

Spencer never apologized for being so horribly wrong about his “anti-Jihadist” buddy being a White Supremacist. Instead he posted a one sentence update saying, “The Washington Post has uncovered evidence that Douglas Story is indeed a white supremacist racist. In that case, he deserves whatever he gets from the DMV.”

In a new twist to this story, yesterday, Douglas Story was arrested by the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force “after allegedly receiving a fully automatic AK-47 from an undercover agent.”

A Manassas man accused of being a white supremacist was arrested Wednesday by members of the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force after allegedly receiving a fully automatic AK-47 from an undercover agent.

Court records show Douglas Howard Story, 48, of the Manassas area, allegedly provided a semi-automatic AK-47, along with $120, to an undercover law enforcement agent with the intent that it be modified to become fully automatic. He then allegedly received the modified weapon from an undercover agent and was subsequently arrested, according to the U.S. Department of Justice.

U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia Neil H. MacBride and FBI  Assistant Director for the Washington Field Office announced Story’s arrest Wednesday.  He has been charged with a violation of the National Firearms Act – a charge that carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison.

Manassas Patch, 30 May 2012

See also Inside NoVa, 31 May 2012

I’m not a fan of the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force, as they have been deeply involved in abusing constitutional rights, through profiling, secret surveillance and entrapment activities. Story’s arrest however does, once again, bring to surface the fact that the so-called “anti-Jihad/counter-jihad” movement is filled with neo-Nazis, fascists, and racists of one stripe or another.

It is also another opportunity to point out Spencer’s hypocrisy. He asked Ibrahim Hooper to apologize for “defaming” Douglas Story, but cannot and will not bring himself to apologize for supporting a “White supremacist” and defaming Ibrahim Hooper.

Robert Spencer will you finally apologize for defending a neo-Nazi “White Supremacist” even after the above image of his car, replete with neo-Nazi symbolism, the Confederate flag, and anti-Islam propaganda were evident? Do you, Spencer, agree with the neo-Nazi Story that “all we need to know about Islam we learned on 9/11?”

Something tells me Spencer’s apologies and answer will not be forthcoming.

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    • Steve wrote,

      @Garibaldi, that’s what I don’t get – why should anybody have to interpret the apparent word of a god? If a god made us then that god should be sufficiently well informed to let us know its desires for us in language which can’t be interpreted – it should lay out its desire in bullet points rather than obfuscate them in localised tales and allegory.

      Bullet points, really Steve? I think a God would not choose such a medium because, well…it’s boring.

    • JT

      Jan, It’s offensive for him to imply that the entire religion of Islam, and all the Muslims who follow it, should be judged by the actions of those hijackers. It’s also offensive that he’s a Neo-Nazi, White Supremacist and Holocaust denier.

      But that isn’t the main point of the article. The main point, which you have conveniently overlooked in order to make a silly comment, is how your hero Robert Spencer is hypocritical and demands an apology from Ibrahim Hooper for ‘defaming’ Douglas Story but then refuses to apologise to Hooper for defaming him, even though he was right about Story being a Neo-Nazi. And despite being a Neo-Nazi and a potentially violent white supremacist, Douglas Story is more acceptable to Robert Spencer than a Muslim.

    • Once again InPeace shows his true colors.

    • Garibaldi

      You wrote, ————————————————————————– I don’t have time to watch the video, but I think I know what it means to say, religion can be twisted into an abhorrent ideology to suit the agenda of anyone. I hope to watch it when I get time.

      It is not only religious ideology, but any ideology, be it secularism, Marxism, etc. that can be twisted into violence and cruelty. At play is the mind of the human interpreting the Quran, the Bible, the Communist Manifesto, etc. ————————————————————————–

      YouJames1978Forever would actually agree with you. That was pretty much the point of the video. Its not too long, so when you have the time, it shouldn’t take you too long to watch it. He also made a followup video further clarifying his position if you’re interested.

      Indoctrination (A Followup To “Religion Is An Excuse!”)

    • Steve

      @Critical, I agree religion is often the excuse but it can also be the sole reason.

      @Garibaldi, that’s what I don’t get – why should anybody have to interpret the apparent word of a god? If a god made us then that god should be sufficiently well informed to let us know its desires for us in language which can’t be interpreted – it should lay out its desire in bullet points rather than obfuscate them in localised tales and allegory.

    • InPeace

      This white supremacists’

      Most white “supremacists” are actually peaceful white nationalists proud of their race. Personally, I wouldn’t be proud over something I have no control over but many people are proud of their race, ethnicity, nationality or even s.exual orientation; it’s only racist when whites express pride for being white. This is the racist double standard of many non-white and liberals.

    • Garibaldi

      @Critical,

      I don’t have time to watch the video, but I think I know what it means to say, religion can be twisted into an abhorrent ideology to suit the agenda of anyone. I hope to watch it when I get time.

      It is not only religious ideology, but any ideology, be it secularism, Marxism, etc. that can be twisted into violence and cruelty. At play is the mind of the human interpreting the Quran, the Bible, the Communist Manifesto, etc.

    • @Steve

      While I’m not an atheist, other than that Ujames1978Forever sums up my attitude almost perfectly in this video.

      Religion Is An Excuse!

    • Steve

      CriticalDragon, are you saying religion is entirely blameless when religious people carry out appalling acts in the name of religion?

    • @Jan

      You wrote, ————————————————————————- I don’t understand. Are you saying that 19 muslims *didn’t* fly aeroplanes into the Twin Towers ? Is that why you find it offensive ? ————————————————————————-

      No one here, except maybe Beholder, is denying that al-Qaeda terrorists crashed those planes into the twin towers, and we’re not denying that all nineteen of them were Muslims. They may have even used passages from the Qur’an to justify their actions, but so what? That says nothing about Islam. What about all those terrorists who happen to be Christians who use passages from the bible to justify their violent actions?

    • @Beholder,

      You wrote, ————————————————————————– EVERYTHING I EVER NEEDED TO KNOW ABOUT THE US GOVERNMENT

      I LEARNED ON 9/11

      INSIDE JOB (research it) ————————————————————————–

      That 9/11 truth conspiracy theory is as baseless as the Stealth Jihad/Creeping Sharia/Islamization conspiracy theory and almost as ridiculously. The claims have been debunked countless times, by genuine engineers. National Geographic did a special debunking the claims made by truthers, including the claim that 9/11 was an Inside job. Please read skeptical blogs and publications and ask people like Micheal Shermer what he thinks about it. Accepting those conspiracy theories as truth, and promoting them, won’t do any good, in fact it will harm our cause.

    • Jan

      I don’t understand. Are you saying that 19 muslims *didn’t* fly aeroplanes into the Twin Towers ? Is that why you find it offensive ?

    • Steve

      “Catholic Church excommunicates mother and doctors of a nine-year-old rape victim that had abortion – but not accused rapist”

      That’s quite an old story (2 or 3 years) – oddly enough it was resurrected a couple of weeks ago on the website of a british newspaper and managed to gain some renewed currency.

      Of course it is an appalling tale. Not sure what relevance it has here though.

    • Beholder

      EVERYTHING I EVER NEEDED TO KNOW ABOUT THE US GOVERNMENT

      I LEARNED ON 9/11

      INSIDE JOB (research it)

Nachum Shifren: Racist Rabbi Still Trying to Run For Senate Seat

Nachum Shifren is still trying to run for senate. He thinks “White Americans” like “him” are under assault by everyone else. In the past we exposed Shifren for being the racist and hate-monger he is in our article, Rabbi Nachum Shifren: Rides the Wave of Islamophobia and Rabbi Nachum Shifren: EDL is the Salvation of the West from the “Muslim Dogs”.

I am not even sure if Shifren is still a Jew, how can he say this and remain a Jew, perhaps he is a “self-hating” Jew?:

… I AM an Islamophobe, and everything we need to know about Islam, we learned on 9-11! I believe in peace and justice for everybody – but that’s not why they’re here…. We’re getting sucker-punched because we as white – yes I said it! – as white, Christian Americans are being taught that somehow WE are to blame for all the problems.

Clearly he didn’t mean to say that he is a “Christian,” maybe he forgot to add the “Judeo” part?

Also see Richard Silverstein’s take: California Tea Party “White Christian” Settler Rabbi for US Senate

California: EDL-supporting Senate candidate claims to defend ‘white Americans’ against threat of Islam

San Mateo, CA — In the US Senate primary in California on June 5th, where 23 candidates vie to challenge Senator Dianne Feinstein in November, conservative candidates were recorded on videoverbally attacking teachers, Muslims, and minority groups to excite their base at GOP and Tea Party venues.

The video was recorded at a “Get to Know Your Candidates” event hosted by the San Mateo GOP at the American Legion Hall here. Dr. David Levitt, the candidate who recorded the event, reports unmasked homophobia, Islamophobia, and racism in the Republicans’ speeches.

In the video Republican candidate Rabbi Shifren cries, “… I AM an Islamophobe, and everything we need to know about Islam, we learned on 9-11! I believe in peace and justice for everybody – but that’s not why they’re here…. We’re getting sucker-punched because we as white – yes I said it! – as white, Christian Americans are being taught that somehow WE are to blame for all the problems.”

PRWeb, 14 May 2012

In October 2010 Nachum Shifren visited the UK to express his solidarity with the English Defence League, joining them for ademonstration in support of Israel and against “Islamic fascism” at which he was the main speaker. Fired up by Shifren’s Islamophobic rhetoric – he described Muslims as “dogs” who were trying to “take over our countries” – three EDL members attacked an Islamic literature stall and were later convicted of public order offences, with one of them receiving a seven-day prison sentence and a five-year CRASBO.

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    • Political science pro

      Interestingly enough, the Ibn Saud clan has used the Wahabi interpretation of the Quran to do exactly that. Even in the days of the Prophet, it was never re-named “Mohamed’s Arabia.”

    • HGG

      “Also, I wouldn’t necessarily describe Loonwatch as leftist. We share a mission, but we don’t all come from the same vantage point.”

      The Left Wing/Right Wing dichotomy is often useless in the grand scheme of things because of its relativity. Obama, for example, is known to some in the US as a Marxist-Socialist- Communist. to the left of Chairman Mao, while in many other parts of the world, he would be Center-Right politician at most.

      But, from an American perspective, yeah, I would say Loonwatch, according to their frame of reference, it’s a pretty Leftist site.

    • HGG

      “a fictitious book (bible) that was written by racist, sexist, genocidal men thousands of years ago.”

      This certainly raises the level of discourse about the subject.

    • JT

      Tom, you’re talking nonsense. According to the Qur’an, the mass killing of men, women and children was never even ordered by God. From a Qur’anic point of view, the violent details of the war as described in the OT never happened. Take a look at the verses Illisha has provided.

      BTW, the command to not kill peaceful people, or women and children is not something I have cooked up. It’s true. All references to war in the Qur’an refer only to when you have been attacked first and even then if the other side offers a peace treaty you have to accept it. In the Hadith of the Prophet, we find him numerous times telling the Muslims to not harm non-combatants, women, children, monks, livestock, trees etc. when fighting a war.

      “Now you are using the Koran to bash non Muslims.”

      What?! Explain, please.

    • IlanReiber quit with the BS trolling. No where in the Quran does it say Muslims and non-Muslims are not allowed into Mecca and Medina, that opinion is taken from the hadith which you are unfamiliar with. The Quran only states that the polytheists should not be allowed near the holy sanctuary in Mecca.

      Hopefully God is not a real estate agent who deeds people land through slaughter. Obviously, you believe, though I think many Jews would disagree with you that God is a real estate agent, and that it is OK to exterminate, disposes and expel Palestinians of their land. Then you justify it and say well Saudis do it too.

      Interesting diversionary attempt to derail this thread, but not going to fly.

    • IlanReiber

      Ilisha, Ilisha, I did not mention Saudi Arabia. I said Mecca. Medina. Yes, apologies, I misquoted you. I meant ‘real estate guide’. You use your ‘real estate’ guide to keep Mecca and Medina only for yourselves. Please do not dance around the issue. Israel is Holy land. Non Moslems were expelled or murdered from Mecca and Medina. Unless you are calling for a democracy in Mecca and Medina where Christians and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists can build their houses of prayer, you have no right to inist G-d is not a real estate agent. You cannot practice religious apartheid in your holy land (Allah is a real estate agent then?)and then insist Israel does not in her Holy land.

      It’s hypocricy. It states, my God is a real estate agent but yours is not.

    • IlanReiber

      Ilisha, reading the above dialogue between you and Tom, if you reject using any Book as a religous guide, does it mean you call for a democracy in Mecca? Medina? The orders to exterminate the idolators in Canaan, came from G-d. Does the Koran condemn the Israelis for this genocide?

      Israel is real estate for Jews from G-d. It doesn’t matter if others do not believe that, because when the exile ends the nations will recognise Israel as a reborn nation. That has already happened. G-d is indeed a real estate agent.

      Does Torah Promote Genocide?

      http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/850235/jewish/Does-Torah-Promote-Genocide.htm

      For example, this issue we have of destroying the Canaanites: In that era of city-states continually locked at war with one another, a pacifist stance–even a non-aggressive one–would be tribal suicide. Land belonged to those that conquered it and stood closely at guard to protect their conquest. The world had not yet evolved to a state where nations could appreciate peace as a value; indeed it did not for another three millennium with the advent of the League of Nations–and even then we know how sincere that turned out to be. So Torah had to teach a people how to value life and human dignity while living in a savage world.

      And then, at a later date, those laws no longer applied. Even before Hellenism inundated and homogenized all the cultures and tribes of the Mediterranean, Sancherib the Assyrian conqueror had forcefully broken those tribes apart, moving peoples from their places into foreign lands where they were quickly assimilated and disappeared. When they returned from the Babylonian exile, the Children of Israel were no longer commanded to destroy the populous of the land–since those people no longer existed. Persia had moved the world from a collection of city-states bullying one another to a competition of true empires, and so that application was no longer relevant. But what then became of the instruction of an eternal Torah that gave that command?

      Ingeniously: it became internalized. The seven nations of Canaan became seven elements of human character, such as lust, anger and haughtiness that must be eradicated from within each one of us if our bodies are to become a holy land in which a temple may be built and G-d may dwell. The nation of Amalek became the cold, intransigent sense of “I am” that lies at the core of all evil. Instead of war upon nations around us, we are enjoined to make war at the evil within–by the same Torah, with the same words.

      Now you will understand why Jewish people never study the text of the Torah without the glosses and commentaries our people have accumulated through the ages.

    • Sarah Brown

      Thanks Nur Alia – I think it is possible to think that nothing justifies those murders and yet still agree that it’s fair to point out that not knowing the full story could be an issue, just as it would be the other way around.

    • Tom

      JT

      Now you are using the Koran to bash non Muslims. What does what you say have to do with what I said? Allah was talking to Mohammed according to the Koran, not to Jews.

      The Koran condems the Jews for worshipping the calf (idol worship) which it also tells Muslims not to do. From this one can deduce neither Allah nor Yahwah wanted idol worship.

      The killing of non combatants in the land is something you cooked up. If Allah said that to the Muslims he did not condemn the Jews for the genocide in the Old Testament, which existed at the time the Koran was said to be revealed to Mohammed. Why didn’t Allah condemn that if you think it is wrong? You assume they were non combatants? Why does the Koran say Allah punished the Jews for being too cowardly to fight? They were punished from entering for a number of years, 30 or 40 I believe. You cannot pretend that they were non combatants just because you choose to, when your Book doesn’t support it.

      As I said, liberals cannot see they’re useful idiots.

    • JT

      “Silence is complicity.”

      Except that Islam explicitly forbids the killing of non-combatants. Using the Old Testament to bash Muslims is a bit stupid. A lot of people are content with mining just the Qur’an and Hadith to find material to use against Muslims, but you’ve clearly thought outside the box.

    • Tom

      ASPIE AND ATHEIST

      You are committing a fallacy by comparing Saudi Arabia and Israel etc.

      I’m afraid you’re mistaken. Long before Saudi Arabia came into being there was religious apartheid in ‘Saudi Arabia’. I did not mention Saudi Arabia, I mentioned Muslim Mecca and Muslim Medina.Israel was a theocracy when Jews controlled it. God did not mean for it to be a ‘democracy’ as we understand democracy.

      I wasn’t comparing, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear. The UN comprises how many Muslim countries who decry Israel for apartheid? That is couble standard here is that they won’t call for their own religious land to be a ‘democracy’. From that viewpoint, Israel is justified in being Jewish if she ever decides to do away with a ‘democracy’ and Muslim states cannot do anything about it, moreover they should laud Israe for not doing what they did, namely, expelling their non Jewish citizens.

      As for your calling Moses sexist, genocidal, well that is true but it was God who ordered it, and since in the Koranic allah doesn’t condemn the genocide in the Old Testament. Silence is complicity. If you note the Koranic Allah doesn’t condemn Jews for the genocide of the native Canaanatie but it does condemn them for other things like worshipping a calf. This means Muslims cannot complain of a Jewish Israel if the Israelis decide to have one, since the Koran itself claims they were punished for not being Jewish enough. Do you note how such countries are not above using liberals and democratic countries to serve their own agendas, but do not hold their own to liberal values. The liberal left are useful idiots here. They cannot see they are merely being used.

      A country decides it’s own future.

    • Glenn

      It is interesting how distorted this has become MyLiberty provided a forum for all candidates to speak along with the Rabi were other unpalatable candidates such as the woman from the Peace and Freedom party esposing socialisim and then of course there was Mr Levitt who was espousing Marxisim Hardly Tea Party supported candidates. This video goes a long way in the misrepresentation of what transpired that evening.

    • Arab Atheist – ملحد عربي

      @Aspie and Atheist You said: (bible)…was written by racist, sexist, genocidal men thousands of years ago.

      Certainly there are disturbing parts in the bible (OT & NT), just like there are some in the Quran too. But you suggest that those who wrote those texts are evil. While some of their teachings should be completely unacceptable modern day, I doubt that those reformers were exceptionally or essentially racist or violent. However, your over-confident tone seems to indicate that the bible was exceptionally violent. My understanding is that when the bible was revealed, bigotry (racial, tribal, and religious) was the norm (terrible as it may be).

      Religion, no matter how much I disagree with it, is much more complicated than the way you described it (religion = evil). However, like you said, it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to justify modern day injustices anyway, as we see done by Israel.

    • Aspie and Atheist

      @Nur Alia

      I completely agree with you. Israel is not a victim, rather it is the aggressor. It is a state founded on a mandate found in a fictitious book (bible) that was written by racist, sexist, genocidal men thousands of years ago.

    • Aspie and Atheist

      @Tom

      Israel shouldn’t be a Jewish state. It has to treat all it’s citizens equally, not just the Jewish ones.

    • Aspie and Atheist

      @Tom

      You are committing a fallacy by comparing Saudi Arabia and Israel etc.

      The discussion was on Israel, so don’t try to change the topic by comparing to Saudi Arabia, as it still does not justify the pathetic ‘Israel is/needs to be a Jewish state’ argument.

      Since Israel as a Jewish state obviously cannot guarantee it’s non-Jewish citizens equality, then obviously Israel cannot be a Jewish state and therefore should adopt democracy and the doctrine of being separate from religion.

    • Aspie and Atheist

      Maybe this racist asshole should take his good ‘ol fashioned white folk ideology and shove it up his ass, [snipped]

    • Nur Alia

      @sarah

      You posted this as a response to my comment…

      “…Nur Alia – do you mean you get the sense, from the Western media, that the Israelis are the victims? The UK media’s a bit different maybe …. ‘Both sides are not being helpful in resolving it’ sounds about right…”

      We get some western media here in Malaysia. When you compare it to the Chinese media (the one I read for news most often) you get a sence that the west ‘favors’ Israel over the Palistinians by not reporting what escalated a certian incident.

      For example…I read one day that an Israeli soldier was found not guilty for what was decribed by witnesses as him emptying his weapon into a girl who had…while playing with friends…wondered into some forbidden zone by accident. The next day, in the same spot 5 illegal settlers, including a pregnant woman was murdered in a car. The western media never reported the first crime…and after the second crime happened, Obama condemned it, and it was first page news in the western media as if it was some ‘random attack’.

      Now, for the record, I always condemn the murder of ANY innocent people. I never take any side in this. Murder is not political, or religious, it is plain evil…so I am not justifying anything here…and dont imply, or accuse me of doing it.

      This is an example of what I mean. In the west, the Israelis are the victims’, and in reality one murder is never rectified by another as we see in this incident.

    • Tom

      Arab Atheist

      Be that as it may, it makes no sense for Muslim anti semites of all people to whinge about a ‘Jewish Israel’ (i’ll take that from an atheist or a liberal since they don’t like religion) when they have Muslim Mecca and Muslim Medina. If they deglitimise Israel by saying it shouldn’t be Jewish, well then why isn’t the left wing, decrying religious apartheid in Mecca and Midina? You’ve seen the hugh signs banning infidels (including Christians and Jews who are supposedly ‘book people’)

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